Episode 122: What’s Possible with James

You are listening to the Overcome Pornography for Good podcast episode 122, What’s Possible with James. 

Welcome to the Overcome Pornography For Good podcast where we take a research-based, trauma informed and results focused approach to quitting porn. This approach has been revolutionary and changed thousands and thousands of lives. I’m your host, Sara Brewer.

Sara: Hey, everyone, welcome to the podcast this week. Today what we have is we have another What’s Possible interview. Today we’re talking with James. James, you want to say hey? 

James: Hey. 

Sarah: So James is a member of Overcome Pornography For Good, he worked with Kat. I don’t know how long you were in the program. Were you in the program before you worked with Kat or did you start with Kat when you joined the program? 

James: For a couple of weeks I did things on my own, and then I jumped in and got on the whatever list you had going at the time to get somebody available. 

Sarah: Well, awesome. Very cool. And then we also have Kat here with us again. Kat, you want to say hey? 

Kat: Hey, I’m so excited to be here. So excited. 

Sarah: Yeah, you were on our last one, too. It’s fun to have you. 

Kat: Thanks. 

Sarah: We like Kat. Okay, so James, do you want to just jump in and tell us a little bit about your story with pornography and quitting porn? 

James: Yeah, so obviously, I’m a little bit older than maybe some or a lot and I got involved with pornography at a very young age, about 11, you know, it goes on for 40 plus years on and off. 

So one of the things that Kat and I talked about quite a bit, and what made the difference in all of this was the ideas and thoughts around addiction were always very, very heavy. And you’ve talked a lot about that in your podcast and the program and stuff. Of going through this, it was the heaviness and the weight of that definition that, I think, made things even more difficult and struggled with in doing that. 

Sara: Yeah, can I ask you when – 

James: Yeah, go ahead. 

Sara: Sorry, I think my sound might be a little delayed. So we’ll just roll with it. But I’m curious, when did you start using that label for yourself? Or do you remember a time when you were like, “Oh, maybe I am addicted?” 

James: A long time ago, I think even before the addiction recovery programs kind of came out and that kind of stuff. I’m sure I had labeled it that way long before that, and just kind of felt or thought that way, yeah, 25 years ago, right? So that’s the kind of weight and it’s a long time. 

Sara: Yeah. 

James: But that’s where I think the difference is in the things that you do because in my mind, and I’ve talked to Kat about this before, when you have that thought and you have that feeling and things go on, you’ve got this buzz in the back of your head constantly that keeps you from being present with everything that’s going on. I mean I’ve got kids, I’ve got a wife, I’ve got work, I’ve got everything else. 

But you’ve always got this buzz in the back of your head that’s this diction thing that goes, “You’re going to mess up at some point.” That’s the whole thing in there, that you’re going to mess up at some point. Something’s going to go wrong. You’re going to come across something and you’re just going to binge forever or have problems and come back and forth. 

And it won’t go away for months or years and then something would happen, you’re not even paying attention, and the next thing you know, you’re back in with things. And that’s where that buzz is, in the back, right, in doing that. 

That’s where when I’d gone through all the things that I’ve gone through, doing addiction recovery programs, I am sure I met with lots of church leaders at different points and their education is very minimal in doing things and certainly can be, because they’re not psychologists, they’re not trained life coaches, they’re not educated around this kind of stuff. So they just do the best they can and you have to accept that, right? 

Sara: Yeah, and some are a little bit more aware than others. My dad, I think I mentioned on the podcast once that he was like a bishop for young single adults. And he said to me once, he’s like, I realized how much harm I can do. And so my mantra has almost become – And not every leader recognizes this, but my mantra has kind of become do no harm. Which is hard to do when you don’t have a lot of – 

Anyways. And they do a lot of good too. But yeah, that can be a tricky place to be in for sure. 

James: Yeah, absolutely. We need to be just giving them as much grace as we do ourselves, right, in doing that. I certainly don’t want to be in those shoes and think about that. Some of them aren’t and they’re trying to do the best they can and what they know or what they’ve been taught and maybe their background in their own family or whatever else it is that goes across that. 

But those are all those kinds of things that had gone on for years. And I ran across, I think on Instagram, I don’t spend a lot of time on social media but just getting there I ran across one of the posts or something on there and was like, “This is interesting. I’ll just go listen.” And I listened to some of that and signed up for one of your masterclasses and within minutes I was blown away. 

Just my mind in opening and going, because you went over things like the real difference of addiction and weakness or habits. In doing that I went, “Oh, you’re right.” I knew the definition, right? You know those things, you teach them even to other people at times, but you don’t quite put them to use for yourself. 

And when I started listening to that and put it to use for myself, very quickly, those beliefs started to help change how I was looking at things, looking at myself. 

Sara: Yeah, those beliefs specifically, like maybe this isn’t an addiction or? 

James: Yeah. Yeah, that this isn’t an addiction. I don’t have to – I think the first time I filled out the daily model tool, I did, I listened to the masterclass and I’m like, I am in completely. And then the next day I signed up and jumped right in. 

And I spent my lunch hour and several hours in the evening and just started going through stuff as quickly as I could trying to absorb as much listening to the podcast and doing that because I felt and saw some quick changes compared to what I’ve done most of my life in doing that. 

Sara: Yeah. 

James: And that’s where doing that daily model came back in changing that, right? Opening, going, “Hey, wait a minute, there’s freedom that comes from this thought of, no, I’m not addicted I have a weakness. I’m struggling. I have a habit. There’s ways to overcome this. There’s ways to retrain my brain. There’s ways to do that.” It made a massive difference, I mean, day one to where I’m able to go. 

Sara: Yeah. So let me ask just a quick question. Sorry, I said I’m not going to talk very much, but of course I want to just talk and hear all the things about you. 

So before joining the program, and for those years and years before, the biggest challenge for you, what I’m hearing, and correct me if I’m wrong, was just the mental weight of I’m terrified that I’m going to just struggle with this forever, and that it’s always going to come back and that I’m addicted and there’s nothing I can do to change it. Is that correct? 

James: Absolutely. Absolutely. And you can hear that emotionally. 

Sara: Yeah. 

James: It’s wonderful to have that weight gone. 

Sara: Yeah. Yeah. 

James: So what that does though, too, that weight and that buzz in the back, it keeps you from being present, right? Not enjoying what’s going on, not connecting, not feeling connected to your family, your friends, people that you’re with, coworkers, right, and other things. Because you’ve always got that sound in the back of your head that you just don’t realize, right? 

I mean it’s like tinnitus in your ears. There’s that sound that’s going on and sometimes you lay there and you can’t really tell or it’s been there so long. And then all of a sudden, it’s just really loud in doing that. And that’s what it felt like from there. 

And it felt like, the other thing is I’m a visual learner and I do those things. So hearing things about willpower and the beach ball and trying to hold that underwater makes a big difference in how you’re living. You’re like, I have, I’ve tried to hold this for so long and tried to. And I tried to push harder and it makes it harder to do things and accomplish stuff. 

So just having a couple of those beliefs changed quickly, that just opened the doors to what I wanted to do, what it felt I could do, the weight of that being gone. Going, wow, I can do more, I can be present. I don’t need to worry about this all the time because it is, it’s a massive weight. 

Sara: Well and it sounds like there was a big transformation just being able to like, oh, maybe that’s not true about me. Maybe these beliefs I have aren’t true. I see you’re nodding. 

James: Yeah, absolutely. That’s what it does, when you change that belief and you grow into it. And sometimes that growth is a little quicker and sometimes a little slower. That one for me was instantaneous. It really then sparked the excitement and the energy to, okay let’s divulge. Let’s get into this, let’s dive in, let’s absorb as much as I can to do that. 

Sara: Very cool. 

James: Kat looks like she wants to ask a question. 

Sara: Just jump in. 

Kat: James, I just love this part of your story. And you were on the other end of this and I hadn’t been coaching in Sara’s program for too terribly long when you came to me. I don’t remember if it was our first or second session but you were like, “Basically I found out I wasn’t addicted and I don’t have a problem with porn anymore.” 

And I was like, hopefully I didn’t portray this as the coach for you, but I was like, “Oh crap, what do I do? I’m not sure how to handle this.” My client, he’s already finished. We’ve just barely started.” And I remember going to Sara and being like, “What do you do now? I’m not sure how to handle this, he says he’s already done and he doesn’t even have any problems with porn anymore.” Though true and not true, right? 

James: Yep. 

Kat: But I think that I loved that part of your story because, I mean, I know this interview is not about me, but it helped me as a coach to figure some stuff out. But I want to hear more about what that was like for you on your end. Like being coached, coming to me and already being like, “I don’t struggle with porn anymore just because I found out I wasn’t addicted.” 

James: Yeah, and it opened the doors to the other portions of it, right? And what do we work on inside? We’d ask those kinds of questions. Okay, what do we do? Because I was like, I’m not planning on anything, right? Here you go, okay, I got the fail plan and I can fill that out and do stuff. But I’m at the point where I’m looking at it but I’m not planning on failing it anyway because of how I feel, right? And what’s kind of changed in my beliefs. 

And once that started to happen, it just made it easier to do that. So then we were able to look at, okay, what are the other things? And we started to go through the emotions and the other kinds of things and the beliefs. That was the stuff that we focused on that made a difference in doing that, right? 

Because there are things that crop up, right? You’re looking at emotion and we’re talking about a lot of different things that cause buffering, whatever it is, right? If it’s pornography, or if it’s gaming, or overeating, whatever it is. But doing things, there’s so much of the emotions that we don’t understand or process appropriately to get there. 

There were times where Sara and I or even Kat and I talked about other times where other emotional experiences with people would come up and I’m like, “Wow, I didn’t even realize that I was going this other direction, now I’m spending time just scrolling through Instagram or buffering in this route because of what’s happening around me.” 

But I never even realized that there was an emotion tied to that thought or that feeling of being with a particular person in the same room or doing those kinds of things. So you start to learn that stuff about yourself. It’s the self awareness that comes through in those kinds of conversations. 

Sara: Yeah. You hear me say quitting porn is about so much more than quitting porn. 

James: Absolutely. 

Sara: It’s learning all of that emotional skill, the belief skill. I think what I said to Kat is like, “Awesome, now just work on whatever he wants to become. What else does he want with his life? Let’s focus on that.” Anyways, go ahead. 

James: And we did, we started to focus on other things. Because when you change that belief and you start to feel the freedom of the weight, you look at what’s possible in other things, because everything becomes possible. 

So we started talking about what other kinds of things I want to do. What things have I wanted to do for a while that I haven’t or stayed away from, you know, hobbies and maybe exercise, those kinds of things that just can make a difference in your life. Because, and I know there’s a lot of people that have pornography issues and they’re still able to focus on some things and have other things in their lives, because it’s not always there. 

But it just felt like for me that because that buzz was always there I had a hard time doing stuff for myself and taking the time to do that. I just tried to stay busy working in a way to keep things at bay, right, to try to hold that beach ball down. Which becomes impossible as you go through that. So that’s where those things kind of jumped in. 

Kat: I loved watching you apply all of this to other areas of your life and opening up to all of the pieces. This program is a goldmine for the rest of your life. I love that Sara offers this to you guys for a lifetime because this is what this is, it’s a lifetime work, right? This work of learning who we are and dealing with our emotions. And so I just loved watching you go through that in other areas of your life too and seeing how you can apply it for the rest of your life. 

James: And it makes it where you start seeing opportunities to talk to others, right? To your own family, kids, right, doing things in their service. In one of your podcasts you brought up the book and the song of saying it with your kids of going on the trail and the mud, you can’t really go over it. I remember that stuff, you know, singing it as a kid and stuff. 

And I remember talking to one of my kids about it, and they’re older, but going back to that and saying you’ve got to get through this, you can’t just go around and you can’t go under. You have to experience it, you have to allow it and be curious, right? That’s where you learn in doing the program, is learning how to then be curious and give yourself some grace at the same time and figure out, okay, what’s really going on? Let me step back from this, let me feel what’s going on and allow it to be there. 

But then figure out why, right? What is it that’s causing it and how can I change it so that I’m growing into a new belief that’s going to make a difference so that I don’t have to continue to feel like I’m sitting in lake misery forever. 

Sara: Yeah, which is what you did for, what, 40 years or so? Just that misery of that buzz. 

James: Yeah. 

Sara: Not knowing how to look at that, yeah. 

James: Yeah, feeling like you have good successes here and there and stuff would go on and it would kind of disappear. But then it would just rear its ugly head at times. And just looking at that and going, there’s a difference between sinning, especially from a religious spiritual standpoint, there’s a difference between sinning, being worthy, and weakness. There’s a difference there. 

And putting those beliefs that you’ve had and you’ve taught to other people, like I did myself, you teach them to other people, like I mentioned earlier, don’t do it to yourself, that was really helpful in looking at it and going, okay,  I’m not sinning, I’m not trying to do this. I’ve got these other things, I’ve got a weakness, yes. 

And now, when I look at it as a weakness, now I can figure out how to fix it and help it instead of just acting like I’m actively doing something against somebody or against nature, like God’s laws, those kinds of things. 

And some of the other questions you’d asked and looking at things, how has it kind of helped or changed in relationships and things like that. And I say that I’m married, I have a trophy wife. I just happened to marry her the first time, she was my first wife, and my only in doing that. She’s phenomenal. She’s supportive, and helpful, and loving and kind and understanding that we don’t get through this life by ourselves, right? All of us have challenges, weaknesses, different things, and we have to do it together in doing that. 

So those things have helped and improved even that relationship portion because then not that – And maybe she’d recognize it at this point or look at things and realize that there’s that buzz, that maybe I wasn’t or didn’t feel present in doing it. But then really I’m experiencing it and looking at it going, okay, now I’m really present, I’m paying attention and I’m really here instead of worried about something else going on. 

I think that really helped. And that helps with the relationship with Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ and everything else to understand your worthiness in there and improve that as you go through it. Because you’re growing into those beliefs and differences that are so key to doing that. 

Sara: Yeah, sometimes I think with the spirituality stuff, we think that maybe really being worried about it or beating ourselves up about it and being really vigilant is helping us be closer to God. And then you stop beating yourself up and you stop the shame, and you maybe think about things a little bit differently. And you realize how much closer you are to God when you’re not so stuck in that, you use the word buzz, in that buzz of worry, in that buzz of shame, or that buzz of stress around it. 

When that’s not there, you’re just a lot more open to the spirituality and the spiritual side too. 

James: And when you look at the addiction recovery type of programs, right, the addictions start off with I have no power over this, right? That kind of thought, and I need to rely on the greater power, other things. When you look at the weakness piece of it, you need to rely on that bigger power, that spiritual portion just as much in realizing it, but understanding that at the same time, I do have some ability to affect this, right? 

Sara: Yeah. 

James: As I change my beliefs, as I do things, as I rely on that strength that comes from that, whether you’re religious or not. That makes a huge difference when you look at it. And it’s just a slightly different change, but when you look at that, that makes a big difference. And then it opens that up and then allows you to feel that more and feel the support and the help in doing that. Because it’s there all the time, it’s just whether or not you’re really recognizing it. 

Sara: Yes. Yeah. For those people who are listening, I do have an episode on weakness versus sin. Just Google it, you’ll find it if you want to hear more about my thoughts about it. Use it if it’s helpful. 

And yeah, I love that you say that. Like it’s just always available to you. I had a little bit of a spiritual awakening moment years ago where I just realized I was doing some meditation and for whatever reason that meditation just opened up to me like, oh, wait, God is here all the time. I can just breathe and there’s God. 

God is always there and it’s the thoughts and the shame and the other emotions that kind of get in the way from us seeing that. But God’s not going to go away if we’re messing up. God is just there. Anyways, I think that too. 

James: I think we create sort of our own smoke screens at times, where we create a smoke screen in between, right? Where we’re going, “I don’t feel this. I’m not doing this,” and acting that way, when we just need to clear the smoke a little bit and open our eyes to let the wind blow a little bit and see what’s really in front of us, instead of just standing back and acting like we can’t see through the smoke or the fog. 

Sara: Yeah, yeah, so good. I love it. So do you have any other insights around quitting porn for us? Or even I like to ask this one too, if you think about someone who might be going through what you have been going through for the last 40 years, think about yourself a year ago, two years ago and what that felt like. What insights do you have for that person? 

James: I think I’d started off with going fully in and being fully invested in doing it. Stepping in and doing the things that are required, spending the time, right? Watch the program, for those who haven’t been in the program there’s little video clips and explanations and paperwork that goes through it. 

And just taking the time to do that and jumping into it. And then when you’re driving or you’re walking, listen to a podcast. Do the things that can help yourself. Get as much of the information as possible up front to help in getting there. I think that’s what really helped. And then jumping in, like I said, I jumped in and did that. And then went, hey, I’d really like to have an individual coach so I can ask questions. 

And a lot of it had to do with attending some of the group calls and things like that, where I just from a personal standpoint didn’t feel that they made as much sense to me because the people involved were very different than myself. Most of them are younger people, some other things and in different stages of life, right? 

And doing that I went, the group thing isn’t necessarily for me. And for some people it makes a huge difference, for me it wasn’t. Getting involved and having Kat as a coach was the right choice in doing that. So that’s where I kind of got in there, because she was able to help me focus on what was really important and look at things from that little different angle and change the beliefs. 

And starting off each conversation with successes. I’d come in and I’d regularly forget that we were going to start that way. And she was like, “What is it?” I’m like, “Oh man, now I’ve got to think about them.” But it really helped me to think and go back and go, “You know what? You’re right. Here’s this that happened? Or here’s the little things.” And we’d talk about little stuff that went through those. 

Is that something, Kat and Sara, that you guys do with everybody or is that something you see for everybody else is helpful? 

Kat: Yeah. The wins, I think, are so helpful, especially to start out with that. And like you said, even when you come not knowing what a win is, to be able to start those sessions with like, what is it? Because then it gets us in that mindset of like, how am I winning? Where am I succeeding? Instead of coming to it with all my problems and all the things that I’m doing wrong. 

And so, yeah, we start with wins every time. Sometimes I forget. But every time we start with wins so that we can get in that mindset of how am I winning? What am I doing? Where am I succeeding? 

James: I definitely think that we started with those every time. That’s a thing that’s in my head as doing that. But those things then helped in that and looking at the wins and then kind of thinking, “Okay, what were some challenges? What kind of things are going on?” 

And then talking about other types of emotions or experiences and things that were causing maybe some other areas of life, right? Whether it’s work or dealing with other people in your family, or those kinds of things. Which we would work through them, which then helped me grow into those beliefs and change them about myself. 

We’re like, okay, let me look at what I can do here and what I can impact and how I’m looking at it and understand maybe somebody else a little bit better. That really then started giving me more of the confidence in my journey and continuing that road instead of thinking, “Okay, I had all these big changes at first and now it’s kind of dragging a little bit.” Those things helped. 

Sara: Yeah, tell us about that. Because I think some people are worried about that because they’ve experienced that, right? Where they’re like, “Oh, I’m done. I’m done.” And then a few months later, “Oh my gosh, what happened? I’m not, I’m not done.” And so they’re kind of scared of that happening when they experience some of these changes by listening to the podcast or coming to the program. So tell me a little bit about that. 

James: So we had that definitely happen, since the time of this. It was some people in the family that just caused me to feel some emotions I hadn’t really thought about or prepared for because there are a lot of times where you start off in the beginning like, okay, I can be prepared for having urges. But yet, I’m struggling with how I’m going to be prepared on how I’m going to handle this emotion and doing that. 

So thinking through it that way and then going back and going, oh, okay, I can be prepared. Whatever it is, I may not know exactly what emotion I’m going to feel, but let’s work on the things that I can do to be prepared for whatever comes my way. 

Sara: Yeah. Yeah, because what you’re saying is there’s the urge to view pornography and you’ve practiced that and you’re prepared for those. But oftentimes urges will come after experiencing other emotions that come up. Experiences with family that can be really hard, or work or whatever it is, those emotions come up. 

And so learning how to be prepared for those moments, and you can do that by learning these skills of emotional management and mindfulness without actually having to experience every single little thing. You can practice it and really build that muscle, so that when it does happen, you know what to do. 

James: Yeah, because you do, you have got to be prepared for other ones, right? Even at this point in my life, we all look at how we are in the kids and we’ve raised our own kids for doing things where you’re pushed not to be emotional or feel your emotions or process those, right? 

So now, going back after so many years and going, wow, I’ve really got to figure out how to allow that or be curious why that’s happening and not dive into something else, right? Or allow it to go so bad that it is causing urges or problems and I really now have to focus on, right? So that made a very large difference. 

Sara: Yeah, it’s the difference between we’re just focusing on not viewing porn, and we’re really focusing on getting to the root of stuff and going deeper. That’s what allows you to continue your progress, when you’re not just focused on surface level, but when you’re focused on the act, the stuff and the skills and, yeah. 

James: Yeah, because I’m not finished with things, right? Just because I had some good changes and great things that made a big impact and difference in there, I’m not finished, right? There’s still things that creep in sometimes, but now I have the tools and I have the ability to put them in action quicker because of that, working through them and talking through them, going back and pulling out the papers. 

And I keep the other papers and the other things close so that if I do need something or think about something, hey, let’s go in and do that. And putting reminders up and continuing to just do things. We all have to work on things. Yes, I can get rid of the desires by retraining my higher brain to take over for my lower brain and do that. But there’s a lot of times where the lower brain just continues to want to push, right? 

So it’s not a one and done, it’s a continued effort and getting your brain remolded and trained appropriately so that it’s more automatic than it is reactive. 

Sara: Yeah. Yeah, that’s such a good point. I love that. And we’re human, and so we’re always going to have our lower brain that just takes over every now and then. And that doesn’t mean, when I say that, like when I say take over, I mean it’s really loud and it just needs help and it needs regulation. We’re never going to be able to get rid of all of that. 

And so I love this idea of reframing success. Sometimes people think, well, for me to be successful, I have to know without a shadow of a doubt in my mind that I’m never going to have another urge for pornography ever again, right? We don’t have to frame success like that. 

Success can be like, no, I know what to do now. And I’m not experiencing the deep over desire, and I’m not having these – What’s the word you were using? The fog where I just feel like garbage all the time and I’m stressed and scared. No, I feel free and I feel confident. And I also feel like no matter what happens, we’re going to be okay and we’re going to take care of it. 

James: And that retraining of the brain is worth every effort and every, those things you talk about, right? Every lake of misery, right? You’re not going to sit in one lake, you’re going to experience a few, right? It’s worth every effort, every lake of misery, every urge processed, right? Every time I put one of those little counters on and go through that. 

And I keep it still in doing it, but it’s every daily model that you write out. It’s every meditation. It’s every new belief growth that you’re going into, a podcast you listen to, every tear you shed or grace you give yourself, every prayer or the sessions attended that make the biggest difference in retraining your brain to act appropriately. 

Sara: Yeah, I love it. 

Kat: I do too. I am so grateful you shared that in the experience of me saying how you came to me and were like, “I’m good. I don’t even struggle with porn anymore.” And to show that, I love that you shared that story that in the midst of all of that, like emotions came up that we worked through that we had to deal with. 

Even though that particular thing was not a problem, things came up. And we had to work through those as we went through this. And I think watching you do that, you can see the growth. And I’m so grateful you had that experience while we were working together so that you could kind of see that and see how you can apply that in your life as you go forward. 

And I think it was just such a beautiful experience for you. And I’m glad that you shared that with everybody else because, like Sara was saying, we sometimes think we’re done. Like, oh, I’m good. And then things come up and we’re not ready for them. And I love that you talked about being prepared, putting in the work to be prepared for what that’s going to look like for you. And I think you’ve done a beautiful job. 

James: Thank you, I appreciate the program and the efforts and everything else that kind of goes into that. And I recommend to anybody that is thinking about it, jump in and do it. I was really thinking about the investment in the program and everything else. And there’s a cost to it, I get it. Some people can afford monthly payments or whatever and do it. But if you can and you can do it for yourself, the payback is infinite in my own opinion. 

And you’re going to get out what you put into it by showing up for yourself, celebrating those wins that you do, growing into your new beliefs and being prepared for whatever comes your way. And it’s continued work. We just have to, just like everything else in our lives, we’ve got to continue on to things and love ourselves enough to spend a few minutes. 

It doesn’t have to take a ton of time, it’s just spending a few minutes to help yourself be prepared for whatever comes across your way and share it with others. Help others. I’m doing this, and that’s the only reason I agreed to come on and do this. I don’t like talking about it. 

I come from that age and timeframe of this kind of stuff was just not discussed in any way, shape, or form. And so it was hard to talk to people and put yourself out there and do that. But that’s part of those emotions. And processing that, I’m able to come and talk and be open about doing it. I appreciate getting the opportunity to do so. 

Sara: Yeah, you’ve done such a great job. And thank you so much for being willing to come on and share and talk about it. And it’s so helpful, right? Everyone wants to share their successes with their job and I ran a marathon. And no one wants to share that I quit porn. But that’s what people need to hear. That’s what people hear because there’s so many people just like you that need to hear that. So thank you for being willing. 

And I’m sure it’s a product of you doing all this emotional work too, where you’re willing to be vulnerable and come and share it with everyone. It’s just awesome. Thank you for doing that. 

James: It’s made a huge difference in my life and continues to, so I appreciate it at the same time. If I can change anybody else’s life or anybody wants to do the same thing, just put their time in and just put a little bit of effort into it, it will make a huge difference. And thanks for putting those things together and, Kat, being a great listener.

Kat: It was a pleasure to work with you, James. 

Sara: Yeah, thank you, James. Thank you so much for coming. All right, you guys, have a great week. We’ll talk to you next week. Bye bye. 

I want to invite you to come and listen to my free class, How To Overcome Pornography For Good Without Using Willpower. We talk about how to stop giving in to urges without pure willpower or relying on phone filters so that you can actually stop wanting pornography. 

We talk about how to stop giving up after a few weeks or months. And spoiler alert, the answer isn’t have more willpower. And then lastly, we talk about how to make a life without porn easily sustainable and permanent. 

If you’re trying to quit porn, this class is a game changer. So you can go and sign up at Sarabrewer.com/masterclass, and it is totally free.